Wednesday, December 08, 2004

AISH'S CHANUKKAH ANTICS

What did you think of Aish.com's new Chanuka video? asks a loyal correspondent.

It's shocking

The video begins by listing the values of the Western World. Respect for life, justice and equality under the law, universal education and social responsibility, including respect for the environment and animal rights, among others, are all included. Then comes, the jaw-dropping bombshell. As the music swells, we're told that these values are what the Macabees fought for.

Never mind, that it is historically obtuse to suggest that the Macabees defended ideas that wouldn't develop for another 1500 years. This sort of ahistorical nonsense is too common. The real outrage here is Aish's moral obtuseness. With narry a blink of self-awareness, they suggest that these values occupy the attention and the energy of the average Orthodox Jew in 2004.

It's classic bait and switch.

You can almost hear the kiruv experts at Aish saying to themselves, "Ok, how do we get those liberal-minded Jews to notice us? I know! Let's slap together a video claiming that Judaism is pro-social justice, pro-environment, pro-animal rights, pro-gender equality, and pro-making-the-world-a-better-place. Later, after the hooks are in, we'll let them know that in 2004, Orthodox Judaism is mostly concerned with ritual law, not social activism."

Meek voice of dissent: Isn't that dishonest?

Kiruv experts: Sure, but heter kiruv!

24 comments:

Tzemach Atlas said...

Also when they load the democracy crap, they forget to tell you about the slave laws, an intergal part of Torah.

Anonymous said...

DB: The video begins by listing the values of the Western World. Respect for life, justice and equality under the law, universal education and social responsibility, including respect for the environment and animal rights are all included, among others.

...Never mind, that it is historically obtuse to suggest that the Macabees defended ideas that wouldn't develop for another 1500 years.
----

Why do you identify these as 'values of the Western World'? Are you saying that these are not part of the Jewish value system since Biblical, or at least Talmudic times?

Anonymous said...

thought the vido was ourtrageuous. Since when are we the origin notions of equality and fairness among the classes? We have a command to kill Amaleikim, Cnanim (or at least not to marry them of to give them gifts) Non Jews are subject to tort biases, property law biases. We are just plain rotten to non jews.
Video is really deceptive about that and more. video makes pretend that new left liberal ideas in non-jewish world are really jewish. Big Lie.

Mis-nagid said...

Damn it, I was working on a post about that propaganda video. I wasn't kidding DovBear -- do you ever sleep????

DovBear said...

Run it. I'll link you

ben-blig said...

A colleague of mine watched it at work yesterday and I could hear it from were I was sitting. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. This is utter deception and makes my resolve to move away from all this all the greater. The odd thing is that he is genuinely inspired by this ‘big lie’ while I had to make a dash for the nearest sink. He is becoming more religious by it while I just feel vindicated in any actions I do to undermine this cult.

I just do not understand!!

Anonymous said...

Hi guys! May I join the conversation, or is this forum for self-hating Jews only?

Anonymous said...

Oh, Aish = Judaism? That's new.

These comments are from Aish-hating Jews, dick wad. Not self-hating Jews. Learn the damn difference.

Anonymous said...

First anon... why do you think anyone who criticizes Judaism is automatically "self-hating?" That is pretty dumb. Watch the video. You will see it is very bad.

Anonymous said...

-----------
These comments are from Aish-hating Jews, dick wad. Not self-hating Jews. Learn the damn difference.
-----------

Good evening, my friend. Yes, just the sort of intellectual discourse I'd expect to find on DovBear.

Anonymous said...

------------
why do you think anyone who criticizes Judaism is automatically "self-hating?"
------------

Um, they're not - unless they're Jewish of course.

Anonymous said...

The video begins by listing the values of the Western World. Respect for life, justice and equality under the law, universal education and social responsibility, including respect for the environment and animal rights, among others, are all included
-----------------

Let's see...

Respect for Life: Thou Shall Not Kill

Justice & Equality Under the Law: Judges are adjured numerous times in the Torah not to show favor or take bribes.

Universal Education: I believe this was instituted in Talmudic times. Can someone provide the reference? (R' Yehoshua ben Karcha?)

Social Responsibility: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Respect for the Environment: Prohibition of Baal Tashchis

Respect for Animals: Prohibition of Tzar Ba'alei Chaim

Yet DovBear blithely labels these as 'Western Values'. That's not surprising from a guy who seems to have crawled out from under a rock just yeaterday. What I am surprised at, is the fact that the vast number of intellectual giants who frequent this forum simply accept this fallacious premise at face value with nary a question. How that KoolAid fellas?

Skeptic said...

Look! It's the Miss the Point Moron!

Dovie's point is that Aish is misrepresenting Judaism, but suggesting that we understand the things Aish (and you) listed in the same way that a likely viewer of the video tape would understand them. Via this misrepresetation, Aish is misleading it's audience.

Every one of the things on that list falls under the rubric of "western values." The fact thet you can speciously connect them to Torah by redefining them only proves Dovie's point.

Oh, and the idea that Jews can't criticize Judaism or Jewish organizations is absolute stupidity. The idea that such critisim makes them "self-hating" is offensive and cruel. Every time you open your mouth, miss the point moron, you hit a new low.

Anonymous said...

>> Look! It's the Miss the Point Moron!

Wow, I must be really hitting the mark to generate such rancor.

>> Dovie's point is that Aish is
>> misrepresenting Judaism,

I know that's his point. And of course, since that's his point, a little drink-the-koolaid jerk like yourself would automatically assume it to be the gospel truth. I'm suggesting that he's wrong!

Furthermore, I'm suggesting that DovBear is misrepresenting Judaism.

>> Every one of the things on that list falls
>> under the rubric of "western values." The
>> fact thet you can speciously connect them
>> to Torah by redefining them only proves
>> Dovie's point.

Speciously connect them to Torah? The Torah defines these ideals, as demonstrated in my previous post.

Oh, I see your point. Respect for Life is a western value, therefore it cannot be a Torah value. Are you naturally as dumb as you sound or do you have to work hard at it?

Skeptic said...

Look, miss the point moron, Aish is the one misrepresenting Judaism here. Aish is the one suggesting that Judaism is liberal, and that Judaism is pro-woman, and pro-enviroment, and pro-justice and pro-equality in the way those terms are understood todayIn your little list, you qualified the terms and redefined them according to (your understanding of)Torah. A clever moron such as yourself could do the same and link most any ideology or value system to Torah. Genocide? Sure. Communism? Why not? With a little twisting anything is anything can be based on the Torah. Your "definitions" (like Aish's) are so fast and so lose they are meningless.

If I called Aish, in response to that video, and expresed an interest in Judaism I suspect Aish would eventually get around to telling that Judaism is not so involved in the world as the video suggests. But first they sell me on the rituals. Meanwhile, Aish is trumpeting Judaism under false pretenses, and recuriting balai teshuvot under false pretenses. It's a nasty bit of propoganda, one you should be ashamed of defending. Dick wad.

Anonymous said...

> ...and recuriting balai teshuvot
>> under false pretenses.

Aha, so that's what your afraid of. You and the rest of your self-hating ilk are about to lose some of your friends to the Baal Teshuva Boogeyman.

Look, Aish has a proven track record of being a force for good among the Jewish People. What, if any, are your contributions to the Jewish People? Other than spewing profanities on this pathetic little blog, I mean.

Anonymous said...

---------------
Aish is the one misrepresenting Judaism here. Aish is the one suggesting that Judaism is liberal, and that Judaism is pro-woman, and pro-enviroment, and pro-justice and pro-equality in the way those terms are understood today
---------------

So tell us, just exactly how do you understand these concepts *differently* than the Torah describes them? After all, as the pinnacle of enlightened thought in the Western Hemisphere, the rest of us are just hanging around with bated breath waiting for *your* definition.

So we're all waiting to hear your perals of wisdom on the subject. Judging from your past contributions, I'm sure we won't be disappointed.

As a public service, here's a reprise of some of your best thought processes:
--------------
You however, are a jerk with no charm, as are the people who masturbate all over their menorahs. They are also jerks.
--------------

Skeptic - the finest mind in western civilzation.

Jack's Shack said...

Aish is a proven force for good in Judaism, hmm....I'd like to see more than that as support for that kind of statement.

Anonymous said...

Hi jack shack,

Aish is a very public organization so it's easy to find out what they do. You're free to make your own assessment of their activities. I stand by mine.

Anonymous said...

Bye guys. 24 hours exposure to this loony-bin is as much as I can tolerate. Enjoy yourselves.

Skeptic said...

Miss the point moron, what have you done for the Jews? You're just a loud mouth bully who trolls around blogs of people who are more talented than yourself dropping hand grenades. You've said nothing thoughtful, nothing constructive, and nothing useful. Likely you probably run a pathetic blog that no one visits and this is what you do to get some attention. Your jealousy of DovBear oozes from your every word.

All anyone needs to know about you is this: You think Jews who criticize Judaism are ipso facto "self-hating." That's about as moronic as it gets. It makes plain that you're too stupid for adult conversation.

Also, asswipe, no one said we "understand these concepts *differently* than the Torah describes them." Rather we said, Aish, in their dishonest attempt to win proselytes, are purposefully distorting the meaning of the Torah and making it seem that the Torah is perfectly aligned with 21th century liberalism. When of course it isn't.

But then I couldn't expect you to grasp that. After all you are the miss-the-point-moron

Now, start whining again about how Aish is a proven force of good. We love hearing you squeal. Go ahead, shit face. Whine whine whine and whine some more.

Anonymous said...

Speaking for myself, we'd be glad if people became more frum. I just think it weakens Judaism if they become more frum under false pretenses. I was also appalled at the video. Judaism is some of the things it suggests but not all of them. Judaism, for example, stopped being pro-women around the time of Gershonides, and it never offered equality under the laws. Only Jews are equal before the law. Non Jews (and woman and Jewish slaves) are not. Lots of half truths and open lies like this. Not Aish's best work. Thougtful Jews should be free to say so without some annonymous know it all yapping about it.

Z said...

And if you don't believe what Anonymous said, read some of the comments happening at MY blog lately. From what the commenter on my site (who is extremely verbose about it) says, Orthodox Judaism is anything BUT the qualities THIS video ties to it.

Skeptic said...

Talk about kool aid! Who does this sound like?
"Aish... good. Must not criticize. Must not think freely. Must not challenge status quo. Must be a sheep..."

That's right! It's the miss-the-point-moron! Pretty good impression, no?