Blindness, mixed with smugness and a topping of ignorance

"Ultra-Orthodox" is Bad Language Cross-Currents(comment #42): "The question for me is: which contemporary Jewish community strives for the ideals that the Jewish community strove for 500, 1,000 or 1,500 years ago? It is the Charedi community, in my opinion."

And in my opinion you've heaped fallacy on top of fallacy.

The real problem is that you're making a foolish assumption. There has never been a monolithic Jewish community. Not 500 years ago, not 1,000 years ago and not 1,500 years ago. Jews have always disagreed with each other, and embraced different priorities in different places and times. For instance, the Spanish Rishonim had a fondness for Greek philosophy that was not shared by Rishonim who lived in other areas. Italian Jews loved music so much weekdays services were accompanied by an organ. Shabbos prayers were so important to shtel women the leadership of a zogerin was required. None of these passions are reflected in any contemporary Jewish community. And there are many similar examples.

Additionally, you're presuming that the Charedi community itself is monolithic, but anyone who's been in it for more than five minutes can tell you that under the wigs and black hats are individual people with different interests and diferent values. They may look alike, but they don't think alike, and its simplistic to point to the worldwide Charedi community and say that no significant variety exists among them.

Moreover, the whole discussion is still born because you've neglected to tell us what which values are, in your opinion, the core Jewish values. You've also provided no evidence that earlier Jewish communities pursued these values - whatever they are - in the way contemporary Charedim do. I suspect you'll say that Torah, Avodah and Gmilat Chasidim are the values that matter most, but why? Brcause of a parable? Because of a learned man's teaching? Those don't tell us what the ordinary people thought and did. And even if I concede that Torah, Avodah and Gmilat Chasidim are the values that surpass all others, why do you imagine that the average Jews living 1,500 years ago pursued them in the way Charedim do? Do you think our ancient ancestors kept their kids in kolel for as long as possible? Do you imagine they were as punctilious about tzniyus and minyan as we are? As contemptuous of secular knowledge? Based on what?

I think the truth is much messier than you allow. Dating back to the Golden Calf, Judaism been a mixed bag. In every time, place and community we've had some Jews who cared very much about being Jewish (whatever that means), others who did not, and many more who who were somewhere in the middle. Today, this is true of the modern community, the charedi community, the mafdal community and -believe it or not- its also true of the non-Orthodox communities: Like us, their leaders are passionately committed to Judaism and Jewish values, and their hamon am is ambivalent. This is how it is now, and this is how it has always been.

To point to one contemporary community, to imagine that one community is monolithic, and to claim that imaginary monolithic community best reflects fantasy monolithic communities of the past --as you have done -- is blindness and smugness mixed with historical ignorance.