Monday, June 14, 2010

More Daly

What follows are Senator Daly's replies to many of the questions posed to him by my readers here. (The first batch of the Senator's replies are here) All of it is SIC.

In the replies, the Senator occasionally plays politics referring us to previous statements he's made on the various issues, but on the whole he comes across as a decent guy. He may not understand the situation in Israel in the same way that many of us do, but there's nothing offensive or immoral or anti-Semitic about what he has to say. I've marked significant answers in yellow.

(I was also pleased to see that his only flash of anger was reserved for Chaim Bray's monumentally stupid question. (Marked in red).

Next Steps:
Reply in the comments. Anything noteworthy will be sent in to the Senator, though I do not really expect him to give us any more of his time. Daly has been generous enough, especially when you remember that we are not his constituents, and that we do we have anything at all to offer him aside from our point of view.
You are also invited to submit posts that address the various points raised here. The best (usually this means shortest and least boring) will be published.

Daly's answers after the jump

Garnel Ironheart
To the Right Honourable Mr. Mark Daly,

Israel has repeatedly stated that the minute Hamas acknowledges the
existence of Israel and enters into peace negotiations in good faith,
it will end the blockade and isolation of Gaza. Hamas which constantly
threatens Israel with war and commits acts of aggression against it,
including allowing armed militiae/terrorist gangs to launch attacks.
No civilized country would accept this without responding vigorously
and firmly.
Why is it that so many people such as yourself seem to ignore anything
Hamas does while implying that Israel is 100% responsible for the
situation? What will it take for politicians to stand up and say
"Forget Israel, when is Hamas going to budge and meet Israel's minimum
conditions so that peace came come to the area"?
Furthermore, I am sure you would not want to be tarred as an
anti-Semite or Jew-hater but then I must ask: Clearly you are
concerned for the well-being of the people suffering under Hamas rule.
Are you equally on record as suporting efforts to end the destruction
of Chechnya by Russia, the occupation of Ossetia by Russia, the brutal
occupation of Tibet by China or the blockade of Armenia by Turkey? And
if not, why has this particular situation drawn your attention so

While Irelands has raised the issues you have mentioned our involvement with the middle east goes back to the UNFIL Opperations and seeing the mistakes of the British in the north of ireland we know the israeli policies will not work to bring peace

Garnel Ironheart
If I may add: Both Hamas and Fatah openly state that their goal is a
state of Palestinian in which Jews will not be allowed to live or own
property. Not just that the "settlements" will have to be removed but
even afterwards, should a Jew wish to buy a home in Jenin or Ramallah,
he will be forbidden by Palestinian law. At the same time, Hamas and
Fatah openly state that they expect that Israel should absorb millions
of so-called refugees and transform itself into a binational state
without a Jewish majority. Do you support the creation of an
ethnically "pure" state where citizenship is based on religious and
racial grounds? And if so, will you support Israel if it chooses to
correspondingly expel its Arab minority and restrict citizenship to
Jews? And if not, why not?
Those are issues for the parties concerned to be agreed by both sides
Given your understanding of the Middle East political situation, and
the fact that Hamas does not recognize Israel's right to even exist,
do you believe that Jews should have a right to live in Gaza or
anywhere on the West Bank with equal rights (and should a Hamas
government be forced to comply with that standard)? Do you believe
Arabs should have a right to live in Israel with equal rights? Do you
feel that Hamas and the PA will ultimately accept that Jews may live
in Gaza or the West Bank with equal rights? Do you feel that Israel
will or does allow Arabs to live in Israel with equal rights?
As above

Given whatever your thoughts on these questions, what will the
flotilla achieve, that allowing Israel to inspect and deliver cargo by
land will not achieve?
The issue of cargo is that the classification of humanitarian aid is in dispute and therfore not all the aid is getting in. so an EU USA, UN AND Israeli inspectionof the cargo is fine as long as enough aid gets in which is not the case at the moment

I like this question. It is indeed very odd that the whole world is
supporting a two-state solution that will undoubtedly result in
ethnically cleansing Jews from large swaths of their homeland, while
Israel retains a large Arab minority with equal political rights. This
is justice?

The fact is, the majority of Palestinians and Israelis are deeply
uncomfortable with, and in some polls opposed to, any two-state
solution. Many, perhaps most, Palestinians want one state -- either
all Arab, with the Jews wiped out, or a binational state. Many
Israelis, perhaps most, want one Jewish state. There are many
different versions of a one state solution, from binationalism to a
Jewish state in which Palestinians cannot vote in national elections.
What is needed is to find a compromise between the left wing and right
wing, or pro and anti Israeli, versions of the one-state solution. It
is possible to have one Jewish state, with a guaranteed majority of
Jews among the electorate for the foreseeable future, while granting
Palestinians who swear allegiance to the Jewish state to become
citizens, and allowing Palestinians local autonomy in many areas of
law. Some areas, like security and (importantly, given the current
indoctrination of Palestinian children into terrorism) education,
would be administered by central Israel authorities. Even though the
whole world wants a two-state solution, this does not mean it is
morally necessary, or the best solution. A Jewish one-state solution
would in short and long term provide the best results for the
Palestinian people, and the best chance for stopping armed conflict.

matter for the parties

Senator Daly,

First and foremost, may I say that I think it's highly commendable
that you are willing to engage with this forum - I hope you will find
it as enlightening an exchange as, no doubt, DovBear's readers will.

My question is this:

To what extent do you believe that useful parallels exist between the
conflict between the United Kingdom and Ireland, and the conflict
between Israel and the Palestinians?

no two conflicts are the same but in this case there are many simalarities but i would direct you to my web site were i wrote perfect strom coming to the holy land 

in ireland we had 1.5 million people in the same area the challange was to get them to live in the same house and not try to kill each other the israel palestine problem is more like a seperation ie sisde by side in adjoining lands without killing each other
My Masters thesis (many years ago now!) focussed on "The Troubles",
and whilst researching and writing I was often struck by the
similarities between the two conflicts, including such themes as
"religious conflict", "occupation", "armed resistance", "overlord and
underdog", "generations long" and such like.

And as a follow on question:

Do you feel that the ability to resolve the conflct in Northern
Ireland (at least to the extent of there now being relatively peaceful
co-existence) was attributable to the willingness of the parties to
engage wiuth serious amounts of goodwill, or attributable to the fact
that the UK/NI conflict was somehow "simpler" to resolve.

not simplier but just  the stars alligned

Your Honor,

You presumably joined the flotilla to bring supplies to the suffering
civilians in Gaza, because of a perceived humanitarian crisis.
Presumably, this is also why you made the effort to reach out to Gilad
Shalit, because of a perceived humanitarian crisis

you can not bring aid to one person and not to another

But why address the Gaza issue through the flotilla, which you knew
Israel never would have tolerated, even without the violent outcomes?

The flotilla was about highlighting the blockade and President Obama has now stated that it can not continue in its curren form

Why would you have thought that the flotilla would be a more effective
way of getting aid to Gaza than sending it in trucks through Israel or
see answer re hunaritian aid
And if the supplies allowed in from Israel are immediately
intercepted by Hamas, why would the flotilla supplies be any
the aid was for the people not the government of gaza

Civilian activists, I understand, rely on high visibility and bold
confrontation to acheive their goals. But as a concerned elected
official, I don't understand the bold circum-governmental route. There
have been many ships led by activist groups trying to break the
blockade, and all of them were intercepted noviolently (even for 5/6
ships in the flotilla)- although that does not mean that the aid was
not sent to Gaza through Israel. Why did you think this was the most
effective method of busting the blockade?

the idea is to high light the blockade not affect the security of the state of israel

A Muppet
Senator Daly,

What do you feel was the mission of the flotilla, or if you can't
speak to the flotilla's general purpose, at least what was your goal
in joining the flotilla? Was the purpose to provide aid? End the


Show support for the people of Gaza in their conflict with

yes for the people not hamas

Or to encourage an Israeli overreaction ala The Exodus?

not sure on exodus but i can assure you i do not want ot die

Do you think that everyone on the boats shared similar goals or do you think
the motives of the activists varied?

if you had 10 people in a march the motivation would always vary

Was there an effort to coordinate
among the activists to make sure that the motives were the same? 


Under a peace agreement where Palestine and Israel are split at the
1967 borders, syria gets back the golan and lebonon gets back shebaa
farms, would you agree that jewish people (or any person)
could/should/would be allowed to continue to live in those areas as
free people? Or, like the many assume and encourage, that THAT land be
free from anyone whose parents happen to be jewish? (arabs, druze, etc
can leave as free citizens with full rights in Isael!)

can you articulate what the palestinians are "giving up" in a
negotiation with Israel?

there are no negociations so they are giving up nothing at them moment

It seems to me that the palestinians core
position is, "give us a country and we will stop terrorizing you".
Putting a gun to the other sides head and threatening to pull the
trigger if they dont give you what you want does not seem appropriate.

Do you believe that Israel "stole" the west bank and gaza from
Palestinian arabs in 1967?

Do you believe that the Palestinians are preaching peace and teaching
their children to respect and acknowledge jewish people and zionists?
Have you ever attended or monitored a classroom at a palestinian
school? read their text books? attended mmuslim services in a mosque
in the west bank?
i been to the schools in the west bank i encouraged them to watch schindlers list to understand the position of the israeli people. but i was saddened by the stories of the 12 year old girls who had to stand at check points for hours on the way to and from schooll every day as a result their haterid for the soliders was easy to understand. we have had all of this in the north of ireland it did not work for  the british to treat people with out respect
i hardly go to mass at home, never mind a mosque in the west bank

Senator Daily,

During the time the flotilla was traveling, the Palestinians of Gaza
fired 3 rockets and 2 mortars into Israeli civilian population areas
from within Palestinian civilian areas - constituting a double war
crime by international law (targeting a civilian population and firing
from within a civilian area), an act of war and a casas belli for a
nation to respond with war to defend their civilian population.
see my contribution to the senate order of business on last wednesday week

During this same period of time the United States of America fired a
missile from drone, striking and killing a crowd of people in
Pakistan, one of which may have been a terrorist or militant (for 13
killed) in what can either be defined as an extra-judicial killing, an
excessive use of force, or a simple act of war. At the same time NATO
forces were engaging in combat operations in Afghanistan, which
frequently result in civilian deaths and often send significant force
against a 'lightly' armed enemy. A man with a gun on a donkey may be
killed with missile attacks or even fire from an F-16, and frequently
nearby people are hurt.

no one will defend the killing of innocent civilians it is the efforts to minimuse the deaths of civilins that is vital 

My questions to you senator are these:

- How is Israel allowed to defend itself from attacks on it's civilian
population from Gaza?

kill the attackers not the population cast lead an example of disporpornate reaction 

- How does what Israel is allowed to do differ from the USA's actions
and what they are allowed to do in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan?
- How does this differ from NATO's actions and what they are allowed
to do in Afghanistan?
- How is Israel's use of "excessive force" different from the USA's in
Pakistan and Afghanistan or NATO's in Afghanistan?
- How is any sovereign nation expected to defend itself against a
non-national non-uniformed enemy that perpetrates a war-like act upon
a nation? 

see order of business

- Which is the preferable action in response to constant attacks upon
one's civilian population - heavy bombardment of the launch area,
heavy bombardment of any potential military or dual use facilities,
active war and forceful occupation to prevent such acts, or a blockade
to limit access to the resources necessary to launch such attacks?
not a military expert geneva convertion would be a guiding lamp

- Is it acceptable to me to provide dual use supplies to Osama Bin
Laden or some years ago to the Irish Republican Army? May I provide
medical supplies to treat their injured warriors? Food to feed their
children to free them up from caring for their families to engage in

 very dangerious suggestion ie starve the children?

- Is it a kindness to care for their children and free them from
concerns of developing a functional economy and allowing them to focus
on war, or would it be a greater kindness to allow them to suffer now
but by doing so bring a realization that supporting a militant
subculture extends war and suffering and with suffering comes the
realization that the war actions may not be worth their price, forcing
them to compromise for peace?

has not worked so far and more often than not strenghtens them 

- Does the Flotilla and attempts to break the blockade bring them
relief or false hope of not paying a price for continued weekly
attacks upon the Israeli civilian population?

collective punishment is illegal

- Could you provide any meaningful explanation for continued
(approximately monthly) deadly attacks by the Gaza Palestinians upon
the border terminals through which supplies are brought to Gaza? Could
you explain why Israel should continue to man border terminals that
are attacked regularly?
you say gaza palestinians you do  mean Hamas (1.5million people are not attching israel)

Though I know I have already posted these these questions on other
threads here goes again:

1) The Shalit family specifically asked that in exchange for the
organizers of the flotilla bringing packages and letters to Hamas
leaders and attempting to convince said Hamas leaders to A) Deliver
the packages, and B)allow Red Cross or UN officials to meet with their
son, that they would use the considerable and growing political
influence in Israel to get the blockade lifted. It was this specific
request, and this request only that they claim was turned down. The
same with the Israeli foreign minister. So the question is how does
your offer to take letters and packages to the Red Cross an UN(avenues
already open to the Shalit family that have proven fruitless over the
last four years) belie their statement that their specific offer was
turned down?

2) You claimed in an earlier email to DovBear that your intention and
that of the flotilla was to deliver aid to the needy in Gaza, and that
you would control distribution not Hamas. How was it that you planned
on doing this in Theocratic Totalitarian state where even the port
authority, the very people that you would need to unload your ships,
are Hamas officials? Do not ships even in Ireland, the UK, and the
US(all liberal democracies) need to pass through some form of customs
and border controls? How did you plan to bypass those in a theocratic
totalitarian state? 


What were your plans for distribution and how did
they exclude Hamas?

If you were not going to utilize governmental
officials(Hamas) how were you going to judge levels of need in order
to facilitate distribution?


3)Since you were not aboard the ships I will assume that you were
uninformed about the contraband, such as rifle scopes, night vision
equipment, and bullet proof vests marked with the Red Crescent
insignia. However, in light of your stated intentions as being
strictly peaceful, do you have any comments as to the presence of
those things amongst the cargo?

Awaiting report 

 Would you have changed your mind about
giving the flotilla your support had you known that such things were
being carried?

if there were aboard i would have insisted they would be take off ship 

 Knowing that such items, intended for militant usage
were amongst the cargo has your support wavered at all?

i or you do not know that such items were amongst the chargo

4) Considering that you obviously desire to peace in the Middle East
in accordance to the various UN resolutions, I would like to ask your
view on UNSC resolution 242. Much has been said about Palestinian
refugees, however what of the Jewish refugees? I fully agree that
Israel should either allow the return of said refugees or fully
compensate them. However Islamic nations expelled millions of Jews, as
well as seizing their assets and lands. Do you also fully support a
just resolution to that issue? Have you issued any statements to that
effect? Will you fight for that as vigorously as you fight for
Palestinian rights?

see statements on the issue

The Bray of Fundie
Dear Senator,

Why is Ireland involving itself in someone else's fight? If Ireland is
motivated by concern for the Poor and Oppressed Peoples of the World
why was Ireland so notoriously absent during the Holocaust?

you may have noticed that britian was and still occupying ireland in 1939 they were shooting and burning our people and towns 18 years previously not great material for forming an alliance so i reason for neutrality was that nothing to do with issue in europe

Senator Daly,

Have you done any work or taken any actions, similar to participating
in the "Flotilla", on behalf of other countries and/or peoples that
are in the throes of a humanitarian crisis?

With humanitarian crises all over the world, many of which dwarf the
situation in Gaza in terms of severity, why did you choose Gaza as
your main cause? Why not protest the Ayatollahs and government in Iran
that regularly torture and kill their own citizens whose only crimes
are speaking against the government and/or violations of Islamic law?
Why not plan a trip to Darfur, Rwanda or the Congo, all of which have
had serious problems with genocide and ethnic cleansing and the last
few years?
Today, 14:35:52

uncle joe mccarthy
dear mr daly,

before choosing to travel on the flotilla, did you do any research
into the ihh and/or the free gaza movement?


were you aware that both organizations have been shown to have ties to
terrorist groups.

were you aware that the free gaza movement is an arm of the ism, whose
founder, david shapiro has made statements supporting suicide

awiting report

when you made your offer to deliver letters for shalit to un
officials, were you aware that they would never be delivered as the
hamas has yet to allow either un officials or the international red
cross to see him?


were you also aware that in a news report from al jazeerah that took
viewers into the belly of the mavi mamarah, not one bit of aid was
shown to the viewers....what was shown was one rag doll.

were you on board or near the ship when passengers were singing their
songs about kuybar and talking about becoming martyrs and did this
bother you?

was not on the ship [DB: Daly was denied permission to board by authorities in Cypress]

1) How does bringing a letter to the UN or Red Cross add value?

The Red Cross and UN are not the problem. Hamas is hamas is the problem

2) What would you tell Abbas to do to represent all the Palestinians
in Gaza and the West Bank at peace talks?

get suport of all the people first

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