Tuesday, July 06, 2010

Spiritually argument continued

If you skipped the thread on below my post below about "spiritually" here's what you missed:

Adam backed off and said what he really meant was "halachic damage" not spiritual damage. I have no idea why  or how an OPR causes "halachic damage" to his congregation. If the people follow his instructions they are potur if they do something wrong, and if they do everything right what's the problem?

Bray reverted to insults, question begging and assertions. Basically, his position can be summarized as follows: "Spiritually exists. Really. IT DOES. And you're a blind, stupid, soulless, moron because you won't accept what I am saying is true."

Kramer, meanwhile, continues to duck and weave. I'm waiting for him to explain why a drasha recited by the Sages has more "spiritual value" then the exact same drasha recited hundreds of years earlier by the author of Jubilees. I understand why Kramer prefers the Sages (he's insecure and therefore prefers the brand name to the no name even when the product is identical) but I don't understand why this preference means one has more inherent spiritual value than the other, and of course Kramer still has done nothing to explain what the phrase "spiritual value" means.  Kramer also puzzled me with this:

A concrete example might be davening. If two people are saying the exact same words, enunciating them equally as well and equally as slowly, but one is thinking about G-d while saying them, trying to attach himself to G-d and committing to doing more to enable him to accomplish this, while the other is thinking about where LeBron is going, even though the actions are exactly the same, one if infinitely more "spiritual" than the other.

Putting aside the question begging (he's asserting what he must prove) I'm still not convinced the example is any good. If I read something and concentrate on it, that's certainly going to be more effective than reading something without concentrating on it but the difference isn't "spiritual". If I study Math, or read a letter from my sweetheart, or review my class notes without focusing the failure isn't "spiritual". Rather what's happened is I've lost a chance to learn something new, connect with a beloved, or prepare for a test. None of those have anything to do with "spirituality" Same as with prayer . If I don't focus, I've lost the chance to make something happen emotionally and/or intellectually but neither of those have anything to do with "spirituality"

.... unless Kramer is claiming that prayer has some magical, invisible, impossible-to-measure-or-observe effect on our souls in which case I have no idea why concentrating on the words with my physical brain would make any difference whatsoever.

Search for more information about the spirit world at 4torah.com.

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