The Daas Torah blog has printed an inarticulate, poorly reasoned, nearly impossible to finish screed against gay marriage. Highlights after the jump
Toeiva marriage is legal in New York State.
I deeply dislike the frum practice of referring to homosexuality by this euphemism. Its a way of concealing that the illicit business practices of many frum Jews are, per the bible, also toeivah.
Governor Cuomo, a strong proponent of “equality,” stalwartly pursued its passage, making it his signature legislative achievement.
He's in his first year. Who knows what his signature achievement will be when all is said and done.
Unlike Assemblyman Dov Hikind’s false assumptions that the New York Assembly doesn’t have the votes, it passed the Democratic-led Assembly by a large margin, and the Republican-led Senate didn’t do anything to stop the bill. The bill still faces many hurdles, and we should not yet surrender; however, as the headlines proclaimed, New York now became the beacon of darkness for the entire nation regarding this matter.
Yup, he said "beacon of darkness." That's all you need to know about the crystal clear thinking at the daas torah blog.
Orthodox Jews vehemently opposed the bill.
Nope. An informal shalushiudos poll revealed that 99 percent of my cronies don't give a damn. They all wear black hats by the way, and send their kids to schools where English subjects are ingored. Their view is best summed up by one fellow who said, and I quote "Why did Agudah even bother to fight it"
Agudath Israel of America issued a statement declaring a must to defeat a “bill [that] is both morally and legally unacceptable, and [one which can] (could) lead to serious negative consequences”.
This is the same Agudath Israel of America that encourages mandated reporters to ignore the law and refuse to report cases of suspected molestation, so their view of what is moral and legally unacceptable is about as reliable as a pork-eating Rabbi who tells us to be Torah true.
The Orthodox Union released a declaration clarifying Jewish stance on this issue. “[Immoral] behavior between males or between females is absolutely forbidden by Jewish law, beginning with the biblical imperative, alluded to numerous times in the Talmud and codified in the Shulchan Aruch,” it stated.
Super. The Talmud and shulchan orech outlaws lots of things that New York state permits, for instance eating lobsters. Per the bible, this is a toeivah, and perfectly legal in New York State. The fact that our law forbids something is nice, and all, but it doesn't put any obligations on the legislature.
Family values have always taken center stage in Judaism, as it is one of the Ten Commandments.
Sorry what? Where are family values in the 10C? Anyway, family values can continue to keep "center stage" in Judaism no matter what the state legislature says. [PS: If family values are so important in judaism, why do Rabbis encourage men to spend extra hours in shul, why do schools keep our sons under lock and key on Sunday, and why do we permit ourselves to be driven into insolvency by tuition?
The Torah classifies Toeiva-marriage as an abomination and strictly punishes one who violates the prohibition with the severe penalty of death.
Yes. Same is true for shabbos desecration, yet driving on shabbos remains legal in New York State.
Furthermore, the Midrash states that legalizing such repulsive acts can endanger the entire society. “The generation of the Flood was not wiped out until they wrote the marriage documents for the union of a man to a male or to an animal,” declares the Midrash.
The midrash also states that Og was 800 feet tall. Midrashim such as these is why almost every great name among the geonim and rishonim gave us license to ignore midrashim.
Yet, as the Toeiva community trumpets the “victory,” some in the Jewish community fail to realize the effect a redefined marriage will have on their personal lives. They believe that as long as Jews obey the laws of the Torah and don’t engage in such acts, it is acceptable to permit it. They’re afraid that such “discrimination” will eventually be used against them to undo much of the human rights that Jews and minorities enjoy nowadays.
All true.
Theodore Olson, a former solicitor general under George W. Bush, sued California over Proposition 8 – a ballot measure banning gay marriage in the state constitution. In his opening statement he declared: “… the right to marriage as one of the most vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness, a basic civil right, a component of the constitutional rights to liberty, privacy, association, an intimate choice, an expression of emotional support and public commitment, the exercise of spiritual unity, and the fulfillment of one’s self.” Thus, the question lingers: should we look the other way. All they really want is just some liberty and freedom, right?
Right.
Wrong.
An infamous circumcision ban is currently brewing for San Francisco. According to reports, Lloyd Schofield – the man behind the initiative – became interested in the topic after seeing the Bay Area Intactivists marching in the Pride Parade a few years back and has since become an “intactivist” himself. His pretense, of course, is “equal protection,” but his objective is obvious: if he’s truly for liberty, why would he restrict people from performing religious duties and customs?
Great question. This is why civil liberty organizations - the very same groups that are in favor of gay marriage - are standing against the circumcision ban.
The Jewish community ought to lament about a bill that purely rejected religion. There’s a connection between the marriage bill and the circumcision ban; they both offend religion.
So what? There are lots of laws that offend religion. Why limit your discussion to these two?
If it is freedom that they are seeking, why don’t they lobby for polygamy?
Why not indeed. Just like Yaakov! Wasn't he a moral person? Shouldn't we emulate him?
Is zoophilia next?
Probably not. See, there's no reason to go to the trouble of legalizing inter-species marriage. If you like goats, you can just help yourself.
Marriage is between a man and a woman and the “activists” know it.
Oh, what a great yeshivish tactic! Assert your opponent of being disingenuous - of knowing the "truth" in his heart of hearts - and call it a day! Gevaldik!
They are simply anti-religion, hence their efforts.
Um proof? Or should we just believe anything you say? Another great yeshivish tactic is to accuse your opponent of hating God, Judaism or religion. Once you convince your audience that the other side is guilty of that unpardonable sin, you win no matter how awful your own argument might be.
As Sen. Ruben Diaz righteously declared, “God, not Albany, settled the issue of marriage a long time ago.” The bill is a direct assault on religion and the religious.
How? You still have not explained how this affects you, or changes your life?
Although religious exceptions were placed in the bill, it is a matter of years until it will be challenged.
What else do you see in your crystal ball?
We should ask ourselves: “should we wait until a circumcision ban is introduced in New York?”
Um, and if it is, we'll defeat it, with the help of civil liberty organizations. This is whats happening in SF.
Toeiva marriage is legal in New York State.
I deeply dislike the frum practice of referring to homosexuality by this euphemism. Its a way of concealing that the illicit business practices of many frum Jews are, per the bible, also toeivah.
Governor Cuomo, a strong proponent of “equality,” stalwartly pursued its passage, making it his signature legislative achievement.
He's in his first year. Who knows what his signature achievement will be when all is said and done.
Unlike Assemblyman Dov Hikind’s false assumptions that the New York Assembly doesn’t have the votes, it passed the Democratic-led Assembly by a large margin, and the Republican-led Senate didn’t do anything to stop the bill. The bill still faces many hurdles, and we should not yet surrender; however, as the headlines proclaimed, New York now became the beacon of darkness for the entire nation regarding this matter.
Yup, he said "beacon of darkness." That's all you need to know about the crystal clear thinking at the daas torah blog.
Orthodox Jews vehemently opposed the bill.
Nope. An informal shalushiudos poll revealed that 99 percent of my cronies don't give a damn. They all wear black hats by the way, and send their kids to schools where English subjects are ingored. Their view is best summed up by one fellow who said, and I quote "Why did Agudah even bother to fight it"
Agudath Israel of America issued a statement declaring a must to defeat a “bill [that] is both morally and legally unacceptable, and [one which can] (could) lead to serious negative consequences”.
This is the same Agudath Israel of America that encourages mandated reporters to ignore the law and refuse to report cases of suspected molestation, so their view of what is moral and legally unacceptable is about as reliable as a pork-eating Rabbi who tells us to be Torah true.
The Orthodox Union released a declaration clarifying Jewish stance on this issue. “[Immoral] behavior between males or between females is absolutely forbidden by Jewish law, beginning with the biblical imperative, alluded to numerous times in the Talmud and codified in the Shulchan Aruch,” it stated.
Super. The Talmud and shulchan orech outlaws lots of things that New York state permits, for instance eating lobsters. Per the bible, this is a toeivah, and perfectly legal in New York State. The fact that our law forbids something is nice, and all, but it doesn't put any obligations on the legislature.
Family values have always taken center stage in Judaism, as it is one of the Ten Commandments.
Sorry what? Where are family values in the 10C? Anyway, family values can continue to keep "center stage" in Judaism no matter what the state legislature says. [PS: If family values are so important in judaism, why do Rabbis encourage men to spend extra hours in shul, why do schools keep our sons under lock and key on Sunday, and why do we permit ourselves to be driven into insolvency by tuition?
The Torah classifies Toeiva-marriage as an abomination and strictly punishes one who violates the prohibition with the severe penalty of death.
Yes. Same is true for shabbos desecration, yet driving on shabbos remains legal in New York State.
Furthermore, the Midrash states that legalizing such repulsive acts can endanger the entire society. “The generation of the Flood was not wiped out until they wrote the marriage documents for the union of a man to a male or to an animal,” declares the Midrash.
The midrash also states that Og was 800 feet tall. Midrashim such as these is why almost every great name among the geonim and rishonim gave us license to ignore midrashim.
Yet, as the Toeiva community trumpets the “victory,” some in the Jewish community fail to realize the effect a redefined marriage will have on their personal lives. They believe that as long as Jews obey the laws of the Torah and don’t engage in such acts, it is acceptable to permit it. They’re afraid that such “discrimination” will eventually be used against them to undo much of the human rights that Jews and minorities enjoy nowadays.
All true.
Theodore Olson, a former solicitor general under George W. Bush, sued California over Proposition 8 – a ballot measure banning gay marriage in the state constitution. In his opening statement he declared: “… the right to marriage as one of the most vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness, a basic civil right, a component of the constitutional rights to liberty, privacy, association, an intimate choice, an expression of emotional support and public commitment, the exercise of spiritual unity, and the fulfillment of one’s self.” Thus, the question lingers: should we look the other way. All they really want is just some liberty and freedom, right?
Right.
Wrong.
An infamous circumcision ban is currently brewing for San Francisco. According to reports, Lloyd Schofield – the man behind the initiative – became interested in the topic after seeing the Bay Area Intactivists marching in the Pride Parade a few years back and has since become an “intactivist” himself. His pretense, of course, is “equal protection,” but his objective is obvious: if he’s truly for liberty, why would he restrict people from performing religious duties and customs?
Great question. This is why civil liberty organizations - the very same groups that are in favor of gay marriage - are standing against the circumcision ban.
The Jewish community ought to lament about a bill that purely rejected religion. There’s a connection between the marriage bill and the circumcision ban; they both offend religion.
So what? There are lots of laws that offend religion. Why limit your discussion to these two?
If it is freedom that they are seeking, why don’t they lobby for polygamy?
Why not indeed. Just like Yaakov! Wasn't he a moral person? Shouldn't we emulate him?
Is zoophilia next?
Probably not. See, there's no reason to go to the trouble of legalizing inter-species marriage. If you like goats, you can just help yourself.
Marriage is between a man and a woman and the “activists” know it.
Oh, what a great yeshivish tactic! Assert your opponent of being disingenuous - of knowing the "truth" in his heart of hearts - and call it a day! Gevaldik!
They are simply anti-religion, hence their efforts.
Um proof? Or should we just believe anything you say? Another great yeshivish tactic is to accuse your opponent of hating God, Judaism or religion. Once you convince your audience that the other side is guilty of that unpardonable sin, you win no matter how awful your own argument might be.
As Sen. Ruben Diaz righteously declared, “God, not Albany, settled the issue of marriage a long time ago.” The bill is a direct assault on religion and the religious.
How? You still have not explained how this affects you, or changes your life?
Although religious exceptions were placed in the bill, it is a matter of years until it will be challenged.
What else do you see in your crystal ball?
We should ask ourselves: “should we wait until a circumcision ban is introduced in New York?”
Um, and if it is, we'll defeat it, with the help of civil liberty organizations. This is whats happening in SF.
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