tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post112239559622927963..comments2023-12-20T19:26:51.020-08:00Comments on DOVBEAR: Kippa ConundrumsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-80541274709481244532013-03-12T03:40:37.174-07:002013-03-12T03:40:37.174-07:00buy valium order valium online cheap - buy valium ...<a href="http://cardiffmiller.com/pubs/buyvalium/#50463" rel="nofollow">buy valium</a> order valium online cheap - buy valium paypalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122438679260540422005-07-26T21:31:00.000-07:002005-07-26T21:31:00.000-07:00I hope I can find them when the time comes.I hope I can find them when the time comes.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122436084701815952005-07-26T20:48:00.000-07:002005-07-26T20:48:00.000-07:00"However, since there are no MOTRO schools,"you be..."However, since there are no MOTRO schools,"<BR/><BR/>you bet therre are...but they're usually in disguise (i.e. they aren't called motro). If you kow what you're looking for, you can always spot them from a mile away. They usually stress middos and individual excellence as opposed to this demonic fixation on learning at all costs. The girls motro schools are obsessed with providing a balanced education and individual opportunity rather than simply indoctrinate the girls to marry a learner and dress tzniusdike.<BR/><BR/>Also, no matter what, the kids in motro schools are better behaved and less chutzpahdik. You can discover this by attending a bar mitzvah or spending about 11 minutes in a typical summer camp. the motros stick out.and so it shall be...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14938399154970068213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122416754518091272005-07-26T15:25:00.000-07:002005-07-26T15:25:00.000-07:00my perents called them traditional orthodox. it's ...my perents called them traditional orthodox. it's what i was raised to be. then when i wasn't happy with the MO types and the like i went to a UO school and was appauled at the number of made up chumros they had, while the number of halchos they either ignored or simply accused those speaking about them as appikorsim where just as large. there really isnt a diffrence in actual observance. the UO crowd, to a lerge degree simply ignores those halachos or chumros they dont like. (not the rebbeim. they ignore the rebbeim when it's covenient too. case in point is lubavitch these days.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122414050073945672005-07-26T14:40:00.000-07:002005-07-26T14:40:00.000-07:00Still Wonderin'-So long as there are no dues, I'm ...Still Wonderin'-<BR/><BR/>So long as there are no dues, I'm in. However, since there are no MOTRO schools, I will still have to make a binary yeshiva/MO choice when I have to raise my kids. Until then I suppose I could keep the velvet and tell those with a problem with it where to stick their srugy.<BR/><BR/>Zoe-<BR/>I hope you got an asbestos suit.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122412591450372032005-07-26T14:16:00.000-07:002005-07-26T14:16:00.000-07:00I'm trying to figure out exactly what Modern Ortho...I'm trying to figure out exactly what Modern Orthodox (MO) means, because as far as I knew (forgive me for my ignorance), I thought MO meant that each individual chooses which halachas they want to follow, they find as many leniencies as possible (real or imagined) so that they can live a convenient life as a Jew while still looking relatively frum. I guess I'm a bit biased, because when I started becoming frum I rebelled against the kind of MO yiddishkeit my gf at the time practiced and after she dumped me because I was "too religious", I continued learning in Yeshiva until law school started. However, even though I don't see myself as so frum, my frum friends refer to me as being chassidic. Of course, I'm nobody to preach, because I've had issues with keeping certain things (including movies, kol isha, etc) myself. But I thought MO was a cop-out. How are MO people actually frum? [I apologize in advance for the question.]Zoe Strickmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940789852735669214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122412177422375262005-07-26T14:09:00.000-07:002005-07-26T14:09:00.000-07:00Responding to blogs: I have great news for you. (n...Responding to blogs: I have great news for you. <BR/><BR/>(no you didn't save a bunch of money on your car insurance by switching to geico, but thanks for paying attention, amshi)<BR/><BR/>Actually, you're not MO and you're not alone. You're part of the silent majority of MOTRO (middle-of-the-road-orthodox, for those who haven't been playing along at home). <BR/><BR/>Your inability to feel entirely at ease in MO or UO circles makes you MOTRO. <BR/><BR/>Welcome to club. Where should I send your application? 'eh Airtime?and so it shall be...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14938399154970068213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122406838280890302005-07-26T12:40:00.000-07:002005-07-26T12:40:00.000-07:00not just the yalmukas really. it's the whole thing...not just the yalmukas really. it's the whole thing.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122406199922938492005-07-26T12:29:00.000-07:002005-07-26T12:29:00.000-07:00That is percisely what I meant when I said I am MO...That is percisely what I meant when I said I am MO by default. Until there are post-Yeshivish school, however, I do have to pick a community. And I find that on the whole, MO is more tolerant of other people, hence my selection.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122405335279276622005-07-26T12:15:00.000-07:002005-07-26T12:15:00.000-07:00You are forgetting, lulei demistafina, that many o...You are forgetting, lulei demistafina, that many of the MO youth today where the black velvet themselves. It's how you wear it that shows where you are on the orth-o-meter.<BR/><BR/>Further, the trend of Yeshivish people who are turning modern (e.g., going to movies, not shomer negia) does not make them MO. They still didn't go to MO schools and they aren't of that weltenshaung. It's a different breed and we will need another term for it. Off-Right Wing, perhaps, or Post-yeshivish.CJ Srullowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851508109666827492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122405127910976902005-07-26T12:12:00.000-07:002005-07-26T12:12:00.000-07:00I recognize the problem, and note from Balibusta's...I recognize the problem, and note from Balibusta's comment that it's even in Cons. / Reform as well, I just think it's mighty sad.<BR/><BR/>From the hassidic side, I'll tell you I once got a comment from the Rav while going to the mikvah for having the wrong kind of undergarment.<BR/><BR/>I still think it's sad and don't think there's any problem with crossing those 'style' and 'fad' lines.<BR/><BR/>I've got a hassidic buddy who wears the wrong kind of shtreimel with the wrong kind of black coat and the wrong kind of socks. During the week, he wears a crocheted kippah (a really big plain one) with his big peyot, white shirt and cargo pants. Confused people keep coming over to him and asking him what he is.<BR/><BR/>His answer, "I'm a Jew."Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13042484533217272945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122402841161085652005-07-26T11:34:00.000-07:002005-07-26T11:34:00.000-07:00Akiva- Are you asking in the sense that it is impo...Akiva- Are you asking in the sense that it is impossible or are you saying ther eis no problem wearing a velvet kippa in an MO shul (my experiences to the contrary).<BR/><BR/>Balabusta- Great comment, thanks for showing that gear is not just a crips/bloods thang.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122400634146991112005-07-26T10:57:00.000-07:002005-07-26T10:57:00.000-07:00Jewish headgear is such a code. I attend a Conserv...Jewish headgear is such a code. I attend a Conservative shul where almost none of the women cover their hair, but many wear kippot or scarves to daven. I always wear a hat, since I think I look like an idiot in a yarmulke, and they fall off my hair. People are used to it.<BR/><BR/>So, Simchat Torah I meet my folks for the great evening of Yekkies giving children mass amounts of sugar. I don't have my tallis, since it is night. I therefore don't have my hat, which in my mind, and also my closet partitions, is connected to the tallis. I'm sitting surrounded by six or seven other bare-headed women when the Rabbi walks up and says to me "All of a sudden you're Reform?"<BR/><BR/>I went and got a yarmulke from the box. I looked like an idiot in it.BBJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09939946821381798057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122399732800262672005-07-26T10:42:00.000-07:002005-07-26T10:42:00.000-07:00I wish this wasn't so sad. When I first moved to ...I wish this wasn't so sad. When I first moved to Israel and walked into the butcher shop, they said to me and my wife, "oh, you eat this meat and this one but not that one and that one". I said, "how do you know what I eat". "Well, your xxxx, aren't you?"<BR/><BR/>Who says you can't be MO and wear a black velvet kippah, or yeshivish and wear a leather one?<BR/><BR/>In Israel, I can ride a bike or drive a scooter, but I can't skate (did it once, it actually stopped traffic with people lookin).<BR/><BR/>It's one thing to be yourself in the context of your group, it's another to be your group in the context of (not) being yourself. The latter is a sad situation.Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13042484533217272945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122397479851828362005-07-26T10:04:00.000-07:002005-07-26T10:04:00.000-07:00I think it is mostly my reluctance to accept any l...I think it is mostly my reluctance to accept any label, since any label has dogma that must be followed. It seems to be pretty standard MO practice to mock the chareidi world, just as it is standard practice in the chareidi world to bash MO. And in my specific MO community I witnessed abborgation of halakha that just can't be justified (taharot hamishpacha).<BR/><BR/>My knee jerk response is a pox on both your houses. Of course that doesn't work because eventually my yet unborn kids will have to go to school <B>somewhere</B>. The question I wanted you to address was: does my concern about my kippa and my MO commmunity's response to it negate all my wonderfully elaborate reasons for splitting with Yeshiva?respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122397061268468392005-07-26T09:57:00.000-07:002005-07-26T09:57:00.000-07:00Oh it was not my intention at all to ambush you! I...Oh it was not my intention at all to ambush you! I'm sorry.<BR/>Your wording left a lot up to the imagination. If you feel you are still quite frum and yet like to read why do you not feel at ease with the MO world?Shifrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11326423616254438613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122396991435689932005-07-26T09:56:00.000-07:002005-07-26T09:56:00.000-07:00And to further elaborate on my reasons of consider...And to further elaborate on my reasons of considering a kippa switch- I find people coming over to me in my wonderful MO shul and speaking to me in pidgin Yiddish as a joke. Instead of breaking their face, I nod politely and consider switching kippot.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8861063.post-1122396823130708472005-07-26T09:53:00.000-07:002005-07-26T09:53:00.000-07:00Oy. Now I know how those guests on daytime TV fee...Oy. Now I know how those guests on daytime TV feel like when they are ambushed.<BR/><BR/>I consider myself MO by default, because I cannot find intellectual accomodation in Yeshivas. In other words, since I could not be comfortable in a Yeshiva community, I find myself living in an MO community by default. Since leaving Yeshiva I have increased my adherence to some halakha- I now keep Cholov Yisroel. Of course the Yeshiva world would say that I am less observant, since I read books.respondingtojblogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780940050084450374noreply@blogger.com